The Art of Not Getting Fired for Not Firing People

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The Art of Not Getting Fired for Not Firing People

HR Heretics

Jan 10, 2025

Transcript

Kelli and Nolan start with a heartfelt discussion about LA fires before diving into the art of handling CEO mandates for attrition targets.

They reveal insider strategies for transforming harsh directives into meaningful performance frameworks, while warning against becoming the dreaded "person of no."

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co

For coaching and advising inquire at

https://kellidragovich.com/

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

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KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro
(01:17) Offer of Support for the California Wildfires
(03:44) Dear Heretics
(04:00) Question on Mandated Attrition Targets
(05:15) Contextualizing Performance Targets
(06:32) Genesis of these Performance Discussions
(07:00) Examples of Poor Implementation: Tesla's RIFs
(08:03) Sponsor: Metaview
(10:05) RIFs versus Performance
(10:42) How to respond to a CEO who says fire the bottom 5%
(12:40) The Importance of Defining 'Why'
(13:23) CEOs and the complexity of execution
(14:00) Reframing the Problem for CEO's
(14:31) The tactical anxiety of HR leaders
(15:42) Pre and Post Pandemic Environments
(16:23) The danger of being the "no" person/team
(17:18) Wrap

Discussion about this podcast

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?

Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.

This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.

Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader.

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